Curse

MMSDome · Mar 21, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

where did you see something suggesting a level cap of 100?

BryanM · Mar 22, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

where did you see something suggesting a level cap of 100?

It's in the PC Gamer article. This is for Guild Wars 2, which will be a new game. Which might have weapons that have built-in magical effects, and such.

Tarun · Mar 22, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

You can hit level 20 in one to two days.

Terra Xin · Mar 22, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

There really isn't much we can interpret on how Anet will develop their 100 level cap. Worst case senario will be that you just grind for it without needing to grind for it. I really hope they come up with something innovative and cool with their process of character levelling. Otherwise it's going to fall down the pit of "Here we go, here we go, here we go again.... da, da, da, da"

creelie · Mar 22, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I think up to level 40 would be just about right.

DutchGun · Mar 22, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

A no-level-limit system could be straight-forward enough to do in theory - just have each level increment towards a theoretical maximum power by a fixed percentage of the remaining difference between your current power and the maximum power.

This would give you a nice inverse-exponential power curve. You would gain power fairly quickly at first, but would eventually slow down as you near the maximum theoretical limit. Adjusting the percentage gained would simply adjust the slope of the curve, but not the final max power. And, players could continue to level up forever, but the actual power gain per level would eventually become so small as to be irrelevant.

The nice thing about a system like this is that a level 40 player could still group with and contribute to a party of level 80 characters, because there might only be a power difference of 10 or 20% between them (depending on how steeply you set the power curve).

Zonzai · Mar 22, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I know exactly why they are increasing the level cap. It's for the same reason that they are adding a level 20 content expansion -- to keep us interested.

They need to give PvE players something to do besides run through the campaign and then start farming. By increasing the level cap they can add a greater time involvement and the ever fabled "sense of accomplishment".

And I think we can all tell that ANet doesn't really want us to farm much. Yet by limiting characters to such a low level cap they have reinforced the need to do so. Oops!

As an added benefit, by going with more levels they can create a greater range of enemy difficulties. This allows them to apply an easily manipulated static variable. That is, as opposed to skill sets. The problem with them being that different skill sets affect different classes and player builds differently.

Mob numbers are also a static variable, but those are already present and are limited for the same reasons that a level 20 skill cap are. And I can promise you that balancing the later areas using mostly skill sets and mob numbers, especially in missions, is difficult enough that adding more levels won't add that much more work anyway.

Anyway, other benefits may also come from increasing the levels but I think the thing that made them seriously look at it was the idea that PvE players wanted a greater level of character development.

It's part of the same reason that they do events every weekend and give mini-pets and party hats and all that stuff. I know I would get less interested without the weekend events. The other major part is to avoid monotony.

Of course, monotony is what they were originally trying to avoid by adding such a low level limit to begin with. But regardless, with UAS for PvP characters there's no need to leave the level limit so low anyway. And I think that's probably the best thing we are getting out of all of this.

BryanM · Mar 22, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchGun

A no-level-limit system could be straight-forward enough to do in theory - just have each level increment towards a theoretical maximum power by a fixed percentage of the remaining difference between your current power and the maximum power.

This logarithmic curve idea is nice, but I don't think it's practical in the long-term. In the sense of having an ever-higher level carrot to dangle infinitely for expansions.

I don't believe for a second there will be an "infinite" level cap, it's just an idea that's always thrown around when games are developed, rarely used.

The original concept of Guild Wars is that levels had no impact whatsoever on the game - none of this added health and higher damage algorithms stuff. Level 1 was as strong as level 47 - the level 47 guy would just have a wider choice of skills.

rnicoll · Mar 22, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorglubb

Not necessarily, they could go for a bland auto-levelled world, ala Oblivion: generic critters with level scaling everywhere.

Please god not level scaling.

I remember, in Oblivion, playing a stealth/magic character. They fought their way through an Oblivion gate, carefully eliminating foes through stealth and cunning (well, something like that), finally manage to close the gate, barely escaping with their life, and practically drag themselves to the nearest town. Waking up the next day, well rested and healed, they wander outside where they are brutally slaughtered by a passing wolf (who had level scaled while my char slept).

boko · Mar 22, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

In the current GW, the level 20 does not really encourages ppl to do quests... heck, most ppl avoid the quests in GW1 like the plagues... Ppl focus only on the primary missions and even with that they can manage to reach level 20 easily and even get enough skill points to unlock all skills without doing the extra quests...

Level beyond level 20 so that ppl actually has a good reason to actually do quests.... Quests rewards > Level grinding by farming...

Loomy · Mar 22, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

If the level cap is raised to 100 or more and it is more substantial than an extra skill point to gain a level, wouldn't this mean a ton more work for the devs not only to provide ample content for every level and to make sure it's all balanced, but also require them to provide a similar amount of high-end content (think 20+ in the current GW) to keep everyone that gets to 100 entertained?

That is a really big sentence. And no, you don't know what you are talking about. They could make GW a 100-level game right now -- you'd just level up 5x more often and have 5x fewer attribute points to spend. Same with GW2.

Darksun · Mar 22, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonzai

Anyway, other benefits may also come from increasing the levels but I think the thing that made them seriously look at it was the idea that PvE players wanted a greater level of character development.

Agreed.

I really like the direction that GW2 is heading because PvE sounds more persistent & it sounds like your Characters will have more development & depth.

the no-number-cap PvE sounds great too! I may actually play it now if I can be part of a large scale war.

I don't know why people are worried about the PvP. Sounds like they will have the regular match-based stuff. Sounds the same.

Dougal Kronik · Mar 22, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I'm hoping the level cap is just cosmetic after the equivalent level 20 in Guild Wars.

Just so those players with millions of XP can show it.

Rusty Deth · Mar 22, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

I'm hoping the level cap is just cosmetic after the equivalent level 20 in Guild Wars.

Just so those players with millions of XP can show it.

I hope so too for both points.

I love the level cap, on the other hand I have no way of showing off my 3 million xp on my Ranger.

Enchanted Warrior · Mar 22, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

100 levels? Ok that helps me decide. Not buying gw2. LOL

If I want grind grind grind I'll go back to swg (they only have 90 :P ).

For those wondering about having the content to get to level 100, they won't have it right away. It will come slowly. They want to slow down the levelling process, and reduce boredom (they think it will anyway). So you'll just wander around killing everything all day and night like people do now for lightbringer and Sunspear. They think grinding will replace the need for content.

I just lost all interest in gw2. If it's going to be constant grind I'm not buying it. I'll stick around in gw1 and help people get master LOL (Like I do now).

*goes off to read about vanguard*

Longasc · Mar 22, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

One word of warning, Vanguard is EverQuest extreme. So if you do not like grind, you are looking at the wrong game.

Enchanted Warrior · Mar 22, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Longasc, Good to know, thanks.

clawofcrimson · Mar 22, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

I think a-net is smart enough to notice all the downsides/upsides of level caps...so I wouldnt worry about it... I trust that they will come up with a decent system.

Disadvantages of "low level cap"

1. There is no way to visibly see a players experience /knowledge /skill. So when everyone is max...no one is special. Players that have been playing for a long time...and those that are very skilled...look the same as the noob that has played for a week.

2. The Feeling that you have completed the game. lower levels may make players bored quickly with the game. Once you've reached max...you need to start looking for something else to make the game interesting...

Advantages of "low level cap"

1. game mechanics with a low cap create a more pick up and play feel. This is moreflexible with real life. (and what attracted me to GW)

2. It makes the game based more on skill than 'grinding' to the highest level.

~~~In my opinion, anet is not giong to abandon their MMO philosophy, but rather try to correct the downsides to the low level cap that people complain so much about, but its really useless to talk about it because no one really knows what they will do.

BeefEater4:20 · Mar 22, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I don't know about the proposed level cap. I like the current method of levelling in guild wars, because i am all for skill > time played and I think the current method achieves that very well. On the other hand, with the implementation of hard mode, I am suddenly reminded of Diablo and Diablo II with the three difficulty levels.

Perhaps in GW2 there could be a regular mode for character levels like 1-30, hard mode for character levels 31-60 and Uber l337 mode for 61-whatever. Therefore, you could play through the storyline on normal, then for more challenge and greater rewards, try it on the harder difficulties.

Having played Diablo for a long time (had a lvl 49 wizard, wish I could have got him to 50), I really enjoyed the scaled difficulties, yet I could play through the story and reach the end before I got to the highest level. The ability to play through the story quickly, yet have increased difficulties so that you can adventure to find better equipment really gave me a sense of accomplishment and hooked me on that game. I think that the lack of this feature is what has turned me off of most MMO's. I played FF online for the PS2 and absolutely hated the grind I needed to go through to get anywhere and the hours I had to invest just to find a party because soloing was not something that could be done past a certain point (as far as I knew of). I stopped playing that game with no sense of accomplishment. I didn't (and still don't) even know what the underlying story of that game was. To me I just felt that the whole purpose was to grind for xp and farm for money.

Having to pay to play really sucks too!!! Free online play Pwnz Pay2Play!!!

Alex the Great · Mar 22, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChance

I'll bet that the higher level cap will be just cosmetic... your attribute points will probably be capped at some point, while your level may continue to increase as your experience increases.

At least that's what I hope is the case.

o God i hope so *prays

Though that would casue level discrimination to the players like me that forgo titles and such in favor having 5 level 20's to help people out with